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Maybe Minnesota nice has been rubbing off on me, I don't know.

Over the past few months there have been some posts on my friends pages where everybody else agrees with them and I sit there thinking "get OVER yourselves." But I don't do anything about it. There once was a time where I would have no issue saying that to a person and would be ready to debate about it. I felt confident in my opinions. I was ready to voice my thoughts. Now I don't.

Maybe I'm just growing up or some shit like that. Maybe I'm "maturing" and I don't feel the need to correct people. But holy god, there have been some pretty self rightious posts and I've just been "you know what, no - I just don't care." But I do - it eats away at me. Like, how can I let these people go on thinking like that. Do they HEAR what they are saying? Actually hear it? And then everybody else is like "OMG - you said what I've been thinking for like, EONS" or "You're so right, my god you're so right." Everybody is giving these great, glowing remarks and I sit there, fingers itching to be all "dude, you're wrong. Get off your high fucking horse." But I don't.

I don't know if it's because I'm too polite to make a comment like that on someone's personal space (but I wouldn't have a problem saying it to them in person) or if I just don't want the backlash. Either way what's eating at me is the fact that I care that I don't care. I'm one big walking hypocrite or somthing like that.

Oh, and this post isn't meant to be cryptic or shit like that. I don't want anybody getting mad at me or start being all "what, bitch has a problem with my views? Why don't bitch come out and SAY those problems, huh? huh?" And that's just the whole thing - I don't want to discuss this shit on your guys journals. If you said it to me in person, that'd be different. And don't get me wrong, I love reading my friends list - it keeps me occupied during the slow time at work and I know that if I had a major issue with any of this crap I could just defriend people (omg - it's such social no-no to do that! But I'm sure most of you have your own filtered friends list - it's a way for you to read those who you want but not others and it solves the unsighty business of deleteing someone.).

I'm just wondering where the fuck my spine went.
In fandom a few months ago there were quite a few discussions about the Culture of Nice. It seems to be somewhat of an lj development. People for whatever reason don't tell other people when they're full of shit and claim it's niceness. I won't get into the details, but you're post reminded me of that. If you want I could probably dig up some old meta's for you. But I totally understand not wanting to disagree online when you know the person in real life. It's because there's no inflections of tone and the other person is forced to try and picture how you are saying it. Also lack of facial expressions and body language make it hard to convey everything leaving a lot of room for misinterprtation. It can cause some serious problems.
IT's funny, I made a comment on someone else's journal about how we get this mind set with LiveJournal that since I'm letting you read about my life, that means that I should let you INTO my life.

I think that's why it's considered such a fauxpau (or however that's spelled) to de-friend someone. IT's like saying "yeah, you're life is boring and I don't want to waste my time on it." We feel guilty because we assume that our rejection will cause deep psychological damage to the person and/or piss them off royally. LJ is the breeding ground for drama, and nothing spurs drama like defriending someone.
I don't get into debates with people from lj because more often than not they have so many mindless supporters that it become fruitless. case in point:
on second thought I don't even want to post the link because if it gets back to the person, it'll just open the can of worms all over again. If you want it: reply with a e addy, and I'll send it to you.
you can send it to margaret.bridge @ omniresources.com
Your spine is in my pants.
yeah, that's 31 flavors of wrong right there...
I dunno. I think people want the blunt honesty. I know when I do my very rare once a month type emo post mixed in with all the PIKA PIKA PIKACHU stuff, it's because I'm not looking for praise or people kissing my ass, it's because I'm looking to see if I have my head up my ass or not.

It's the internet. it's not worth stressing about. If you can't be totaly honest here, where cna you be?
See, I think what's wrong is that I'm afraid that I'd come off as sounding too mean. I used to be tactful and now when I'm brutally honest I am BRUTALLY honest. I worry about offending people because, as amaresu pointed out, there's no body language, no tonal infliction and things could be taken the wrong way.

I fear that I've become too chicken shit to piss other people off when sometimes maybe they NEED to be pissed off. If that makes any sense. This is more about how I'm angry with myself for not being able to say "hey, did you know your head is completely up your ass?" in a tactful and meaningful way.
Are you mad about my job post?
not specifically no - but it's part of the group of posts I would have commented on if only I could find my spine.

I realized that anything I could have said to your post would have sounded bitchy, and I didn't want to put my bitch fest on your space, so I figured I'd cover all of my bases and get my bitch-on (heh, I like that term) with the issue on a whole on mine.

It's like, how do I trust myself not to sound like I'm attacking your views but still bringing in my own viewpoint to the issue?
I say spice shit up and tell it like it is. Makes life more interesting and more often than not, someone else will read what you wrote and totally agree with you rather than what the masses are agree about.
I just wish I had the spine to stand up and accept whatever happens when I DO go off. Like, I just don't want to start a huge flame-a-thon because I might disagree with someone (and I realize that assuming that I could do that is kinda arrogent on my behalf). I've heard too many stories about friendships breaking up because someone posted something that got back to someone else and then people got angry names were called, trump cards of "well, I guess i know who my REAL friends are" get played and it's just too much of a hassle.

LJ shouldn't be a drama-fest waiting to happen, but it is. I wish (and I really do wish this, how sad is that?) that I could just let it happen and not care.
OMG - you said what I've been thinking for like, EONS
hehehe I know, I'm so right - GOD I am SO right ;)
Personally, I would have no problem with you telling me when my head is stuck up my ass because, to be totally honest, it is up there alot. I realize I keep a very immature and somewhat self-righteous journal, but how poeple take that is their own business; an opinion is always welcome unless the party knows otherwise and that is when drama will ensue. As long as what is said is completely honest and not constuable as lible, go for it.
and see, I realize that *I* am being self rightious by calling other people self righteous. THis whole post of mind is kinda hypocritical (the more I write, the more I stick my foot down my throat).

I just hope other people feel comfortable telling me when I'm being dumb - 'cause I know I'm dumb A LOT. And it's like, when they don't, is because they just don't care? How sick is THAT of me to think about?
If people want to respond in "my space" (which is hard to claim, being the 'net) whatever. I get pissed off when they bitch about me in their own journals about what I said or they basically put me down to the point of making me feel like pond scum. THAT'S when I feel like going out and hunting them down, beating them to death, and desicrating their rotting corpses.....but that rarely happens. Also rare, from my experience, is you getting majorly bitchy. I mean, I know of a few occasions where you wanted to kill someone or bring them down a notch, but not often at all. Maybe you should try doing that some more.
And that's because I can normally present myself without being too increadibly bitchy - I like to think of myself as tactful. However, as of late my tact seems to have left me. So if I start writing back to someone it becomes like a personal attack when I REALLY don't want it to be one.

That's the thing with me - the reason you haven't seen me get too bitchy with people is because when I do, it's HARDCORE. That's happened maybe twice at SNC - like the fight I had with Sarah. I don't do it very often because I don't like doing it, but if I get pissed off enough, I fight mean and I fight dirty.
I recently went through this over politics. I have always avoided discussing politics because it seemed like an issue I just preferred to keep to myself. Then someone insinuated that the reason I didn't discuss politics was because I was ill-informed.

I went off and wrote a novella on my political views, and to be honest, I felt much better. The next time I saw the person in question, we argued over things for a while and now he leaves me alone.

I also understand about comments. A couple of times in the past week or so I have started typing a comment and then realized it was longer than the original post, so I moved it to my own journal, LOL. Besides, then that way I can get other folks to see it and leave their replies.
I just wish I could gain my tactfulness back - that's one of the issues I'm having. I'd love to respond to these people, but when I do, I come off sounding really dumb - and really, that's not who I am.

And totally - I've written small books in other people's journals, and I think that maybe it's rude of me to do so. I don't mind when others do it in my LJ - but then I really like to read and get stuff in my email box. But yeah, sometimes I like to open it up to others.
Hmm. . .well, since i tend to really irritate people with my posts in both my LJ and other peoples', I feel the urge to weigh in on this in the only way I know how.

I say it's a matter of groupthink infecting LJ like it has the rest of the web. I've read threads on all sorts of boards, from WWF to Philosophy to Mixed Martial Arts to Shakespeare to Survivor:Outback to the upcoming election, and they all have the same kind of themes.

YOu have someone with an opinion. 90% of the people agree with it and go 'huh huh yeah yeah' and post nothing redeeming. Then you have the one person who actually doesn't agree and evryone gets their panties in a jumble telling that person their wrong, usually with the most ridiculous insults ever. Case in point:

I posted something on urs in simple disagreement over the role of women and career in today's society, and I beleive people assessed me as person as someone who was someone who didnt make anyone proud, wore a paper hat to work, etc. And as soon as I made a comment in return (I believe I asked the lady who insulted my profession to not insult my profession as I did not forcibly evict the gentlemen who pay for her services out of her domicile) I believe I was insluted even worse.

While the completely dickheadedness of my post might have something to do with it (EDIT: most of it, probably), I noticeed a recurring theme in other posts from other people over different topics. If you don't have the one acceptable opinion (like HHH holds people down on RAW, Bush is akin to Hitler, Eastern Philosophy is the greatest thing ever because it wasn't spoiled by Europeans, Kill Bill Vol 2 is the greatest movie ever, or whatever thread u get tangled up in) you're automatically a moron and thus entitled to have your entire life belittled.

Kaela pointed it out to me, and I really noticed it afterwards. Eventually, I think you learn where to pick your battles. You can only have so much piss and vinegar in you; 40+hours a week working for the machine, sleep, eating, and whatever hobbies/activities you do take up valuable time that picking LJ fights takes up. Me, if it's choosing between getting in early for my workout in for the day or commentating on some caveat of John Kerry I'm going to choose Bally's.

Like Kaela and Abby just kind of point out where I'm either factually wrong or just being an asshole, or it's the subject of politics and my right wing conservatism can be semi-bothersome.

BUT both sides of this spectrum serves a valuable purpose, as others can point out things I might have missed and I can do the same for them.

I view LJ like this. It gives me a chance to read what others have to say, no more no less. Yeah you get the lemmingness of people to just agree without thinking about it, but thats everything on the web from what I've seen.

Damn, I need a drink.
I find it interesting that if people were to agree with your views in droves you would have no problem. However, the moment people disagrees with you, it becomes "group think" and, as I take it "wrong because they aren't using their brains."

Recently in a community someone got banned and threw a hissy fit for all the wrong reasons. She did have a view point that WAS different from people - the only reason people got mad at her was because she was very insulting, using personal attacks. The Mod asked her to appologize for being rude - mind you, the mod DID NOT ask for her to retract her view. Meanwhile, the girl threw this big hissy fit for getting band because *gasp* she had a different view point.

IN all honesty - it's not what you say, it's how you say it. A lot of people don't understand it. THey think that people are getting pissed at them for their different view points but really people are just getting pissed at them because they're ass holes. That's what I'm having an issue with. I can't respond in any way constructive: it all becomes too personal of an attack.
So there are a million replies, but i would like to add my two cents. I think you should post what you want to say, and people should get over themselves. Recently i had a friend get into a moral argument with me (one that you posted on actually) and although we had VERY differing viewpoints, i felt like we had a relatively okay discussion. And i liked that you were willing to correct me when i put down catholic instead of christian...i just didn't reply cause i felt like you had a valid point and such. So yeah, just DO IT :)
*chuckles* and see, your original post wasn't one that pissed me off or irked me at all (except for the catholic thing, which I do defend because I strongly believe, to paraphrase some bishop, that a lot less people would hate the catholic church if they actually knew what the catholic church was. Now granted, there are some very loud, very annoying, very conservative catholics out there - but think of Dorothy Day, a fantastic political activist and also a good Catholic. But really, this is a different post for a different thread..).

I Thought you expressed yourself very well, and you handled yourself well when defending your point (religion and morality is, I feel, the hardest thing to debate because a lot of it just can't be proved, and thus as stated before, turns quickly to personal attacks).

As I keep saying, what is bugging me is that as a writer, I should feel more confident in using this medium to express myself and as of late I have found myself lacking in that department. I write before I think and end up eating my foot (its really not that tasty...)